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[edit] Meeting: DebConf16 Cape Town Bid -- 2014-11-12

Held at 2014-11-12T19:33:13Z in #debconf16-capetown on oftc. Convened by tumbleweed.

[edit] Attendees

  • ginggs
  • drnlm
  • mwmwmwm
  • madduck
  • tumbleweed
  • nattie
  • highvoltage
  • indiebio
  • wendar
  • confluency

[edit] Minutes

[edit] Breakwater

We have a quote, but it's fairly high, as there's no academic discount. Bernelle will see if we can get one. She'll also attempt to get a walkthrough.

[edit] UCT Main campus

We have several good catering quotes. Bernelle will contact some hotel schools, too.

We should get some more official input on disabled access. Bernelle will attempt to find someone in a position of authority at UCT.

[edit] Automated Minutes

19:33:13 Meeting started
19:47:25 agreed: indiebio to get UCT-approved prices out of breakwater (tumbleweed)
19:53:20 agreed: indiebio to arrange meeting with Alex for a walkthrough (nattie)
20:09:58 agreed: indiebio to investigate hotel schools (nattie)
20:26:19 agreed: indiebio to harass someone in UCT about disabled access (tumbleweed)
20:30:19 Meeting ended

[edit] Full log

19:33:13 <tumbleweed> tibid: start meeting about DebConf16 Cape Town Bid
19:33:13 * tibid gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles
19:33:21 <tumbleweed> agenda:
19:34:01 <tumbleweed> well, we've got the breakwater quote
19:34:21 <wendar> I still need to enter that into the spreadsheet
19:34:31 <wendar> also, a food quote for UCT main campus
19:34:34 <indiebio> I haven't looked at the venue checklist thing yet - in other words, I haven't walked around again yet
19:34:43 <nattie> i'll just get the breakwater info
19:33:50 <tumbleweed> last meeting:
19:36:54 <nattie> ok, got, reading now
19:37:27 <indiebio> I haven't read it either, but just looking, the catering quotes say: 1 main course R170, 2: R195, 3: R220
19:37:51 <indiebio> and because the restaurant is too small, they will have to set up a marquee tent, which will increase cost.
19:38:03 <indiebio> And I'm imagining if it rains this will be sub-optimal.
19:38:51 <tumbleweed> yeah
19:38:56 <nattie> depending on how long the lunch break is, not everyone will be there at the same time, though
19:39:11 <nattie> is using the internal catering obligatory if we go with Breakwater?
19:39:12 <tumbleweed> yes, we ate in shifts, this year
19:39:26 <tumbleweed> not formal shifts, but the dinner windows were 2 hours long
19:39:41 <nattie> you'd get the initial stampede and the late stampede :)
19:39:53 <nattie> ("oh no, dining hall's closing in 10 minutes!")
19:40:47 <indiebio> I think the internal catering would be obligatory. I can check, but I think that's how they make a lot of their income.
19:41:20 <indiebio> hotel rooms, cheapest is a quad unit at R2805, I think that's for the room, so divide that by 4.
19:41:27 <indiebio> single rooms R2092
UNHANDLED EVENT: notice 19:43:52 <nattie> welcome mwmwmwm, you've just wandered into a team meeting :)
19:43:58 <wendar> indiebio: I wondered on that, did they give us the university discount or not?
19:44:18 <wendar> because, it's not the rate they give on the website for university events
19:44:24 <wendar> it's double and higher :(
19:44:38 <tumbleweed> mwmwmwm: hi!
19:44:56 <indiebio> I don't think so. I think this is the independent rate.
19:45:15 <tumbleweed> does that mean we need to go back to them, now that we have UCT approval?
19:45:16 <indiebio> This was before I heard ginggs managed to get approval! So now I can go back.
19:45:26 <mwmwmwm> hello stef
19:45:36 <indiebio> Also, I managed to deal with Alex, Michelle, my first contact, never came back to me.
19:45:38 <tumbleweed> tibid: minutes so far
19:45:38 <tibid> Minutes available at
19:45:40 <tumbleweed> mwmwmwm: ^^
19:46:55 <indiebio> for the record and my ever fading brain, can you action that I go back to breakwater now, tumbleweed, please?
19:47:25 <tumbleweed> tibid: agreed indiebio to get UCT-approved prices out of breakwater
19:47:25 <tibid> Agreed: indiebio to get UCT-approved prices out of breakwater
19:47:32 <tumbleweed> gaah, I really need to make anyone able to minute things
19:47:47 <nattie> tumbleweed: i think i'm supposed to be able to - shall i try it with the next item?
19:47:53 <tumbleweed> you're welcome to
19:48:08 <ginggs> indiebio: and wave deputy vice chancellors signature at them
19:48:12 <indiebio> are there any other questions so long, wendar, or can I sommer write an email to Alex now already?
19:48:28 <indiebio> have you sent it to me, ginggs? Have you got it yet?
19:49:08 <ginggs> haven't got signed copies back yet
19:49:28 <wendar> indiebio: did they give us quotes for the lecture theatres?
19:49:39 <wendar> it seemed like we were missing some rooms
19:51:29 <indiebio> I haven't looked at it yet...
19:51:42 <nattie> the AV equipment hire looks a bit expensive
19:51:45 <indiebio> I did see from a quick look the long exhibition hall...
19:52:04 <indiebio> are there maybe just one venue, representing others of identical size?
19:52:19 <indiebio> I think I'll have to go do another site visit, could do this on Friday...
19:52:27 <nattie> that would be great
19:52:39 <nattie> talking in person is probably helpful, too
19:52:43 <tumbleweed> yeah, AV stuff does look pricy. I'm sure we could get a better deal elsewhere
19:52:54 <indiebio> idea: would be good to meet with Alex then for a walk through
19:53:05 <nattie> can i try to put that as an action item
19:53:20 <nattie> tibid: agreed indiebio to arrange meeting with Alex for a walkthrough
19:53:20 <tibid> Agreed: indiebio to arrange meeting with Alex for a walkthrough
19:53:24 <nattie> \o/
19:53:39 <confluency> Welp, this is what happens when I keep missing meetings. ;)
19:53:59 <indiebio> \o/
19:54:03 <tumbleweed> confluency: set a reminder?
19:54:03 <nattie> confluency: happens in my choir too, one suddenly gets given solos if one misses rehearsals...
19:54:08 <madduck> you get to be in charge of c&w meetings
19:54:11 <madduck> i can imagine worse
19:56:16 <tumbleweed> indiebio: any agenda items of yours that we still need to cover?
19:56:31 <wendar> indiebio: updating spreadsheet now, looks like I've entered Executive Room, Faculty Room, and Lecture Theatre, and they haven't given us prices.
19:56:42 <wendar> those rooms came from their public room list
19:56:52 <indiebio> tumbleweed, I put the items in, are we on the same page?
19:57:10 <tumbleweed> indiebio: I mean, we've had a rambling discussion, if you want to focus on anything, raise it
19:57:11 <wendar> all the other rooms we have prices for
19:57:21 <indiebio> 'K, catering...
19:57:51 <nattie> ginggs told us earlier he contacted four catering firms and has a one reply back so far, but not a concrete quote
19:57:51 <indiebio> what are the ballpark prices per meal? I know we say cheapest and recommended, but what are our reasonable estimate based on previous years?
19:58:03 <indiebio> Are we looking at breakfast, lunch and dinner or what?
19:58:18 <tumbleweed> yeah, we are
19:58:30 <nattie> though in a townie type venue, there will be fewer people around for dinner, IME
19:58:35 <tumbleweed> although maybe a fair number of people will choose to dine out
19:58:35 <tumbleweed> yes
19:58:42 <nattie> tumbleweed: great minds ;)
19:59:19 <tumbleweed> given snacks (as all these conference packages seem to have), I can also see breakfast attendance being lower than lunch
19:59:35 <indiebio> are there other ways of saving money? e.g. if they are charging for plates etc, when des it make economic sense to buy our own cutlery/ plates, as a wild example?
19:59:43 <nattie> yeah. breakfast doesn't really need to be elaborate for everyone
19:59:56 <nattie> though i guess bigger breakfasts being available would also be OK
20:00:13 <tumbleweed> indiebio: in Nicaragua, we bought coffee mugs for all attendees
20:00:30 <nattie> and in Portland we had the water bottles, but that's not catering as such
20:00:37 <indiebio> I saw enamel mugs yesterday, I want one :)
20:00:39 <tumbleweed> i'd imagine, hiring crockery is cheaper than buying it, but maybe not by much
20:00:53 <nattie> also, where would the bought crockery go afterwards?
20:01:02 <nattie> (guess we could donate it to a charity)
20:01:03 <indiebio> yeah, so after how many days does it make more sense to buy, and can one sell these as second hand, ever?
20:01:06 <indiebio> yeah
20:01:19 <indiebio> anyways, just thinking through options
20:01:25 <mwmwmwm> There is a rental place in paarden eiland, but it really only makes sense
20:01:40 <drnlm> There's a bunch of costs around cleaning everything afterwards an such usually buried in the crockery hire prices, which would still need to be addressed
20:01:46 <indiebio> and I think that's all I wanted to discuss.
20:01:48 <mwmwmwm> if we are also doing our own cooking ?
20:01:56 <highvoltage> o/ (sorry for being late)
20:02:06 <nattie> highvoltage: hola
20:02:19 <tumbleweed> I think given south african economics, doing our own cooking is uneccessary
20:02:20 <indiebio> I think as quotes come through I'll try load to git and then email the list
20:02:20 <nattie> mwmwmwm: doesn't really happen at DebConf anymore, own cooking
20:02:31 <tumbleweed> (we never do that in the firsst world, where it costs 10x as much)
20:02:40 <indiebio> ain't nobody got time for cooking :P (I HATE cooking)
20:02:41 <nattie> (though access to a kichen would be awesome)
20:02:49 <confluency> I loff cooking.
20:02:57 <nattie> i am cooking-ambivalent.
20:03:05 <nattie> there, we've got the whole cooking-spectrum covered :)
20:03:05 <tumbleweed> although I guess switzerland's debconf-run bar had its own cooking
20:03:05 <indiebio> I will make you corsets if you cook for me
20:03:12 <confluency> But maybe not catering on a massive scale.
20:03:19 <nattie> .oO(raclette)
20:03:50 <confluency> I would totes make my garlic cheese, but don't blame me if it leads to forking because people can't stand to be near each other afterwards. ;)
20:03:53 <wendar> I ran a camp kitchen in Kenya for 100, but 200-300 is out of my league. :)
20:04:12 <mwmwmwm> What I meant is that I was under the impression that catering outfits tend
20:04:20 <tumbleweed> confluency: rakija solves all those kind of problems
20:04:27 <mwmwmwm> to provide cutlerly with not that much more prompting, so if you want to buy
20:04:42 <indiebio> yeah, I guess.
20:04:45 <tumbleweed> yeah, I'd imagine caterers have access to cutlery/crockery at good prices
20:04:53 <mwmwmwm> or rent cutlery, then that would make sense if the caterers are left out
20:04:55 <mwmwmwm> entirely
20:05:05 <highvoltage> wendar: wow, that's already impressive
20:06:31 <tumbleweed> I think there are definitely ways to save costs around catering
20:06:42 <tumbleweed> but I also assume that this isn't going to be a huge portion of our budget
20:06:50 <tumbleweed> (except maybe for UCT upper campus)
20:07:00 <tumbleweed> so, we probably don't need to worry too much about it right now
20:07:27 <tumbleweed> although, it sounds like feed is going to cost about as much as accom?
20:07:49 <nattie> debianites are hobbits
20:07:58 <nattie> we like food
20:08:06 <tumbleweed> and we're also very happy with simple food
20:08:16 <highvoltage> if only debianites had as awesome food songs :)
20:08:23 <tumbleweed> (nicaragua was amazing, and I'm assuming scary cheap)
20:08:47 <highvoltage> I really liked everything about nicaragua.
20:08:59 <mwmwmwm> Aren't there hotel schools around ... which somehow could be roped
20:09:04 <mwmwmwm> in or rented or something ...
20:09:21 <indiebio> there are, actually!
20:09:35 <indiebio> someone please action me to go find out about hotel schools
20:09:41 <tumbleweed> talk to arbitraryuser? his wife is a chef
20:09:53 <indiebio> not sure if they get inundated by requests, but I'll go find out
20:09:58 <nattie> tibid: agreed indiebio to investigate hotel schools
20:09:58 <tibid> Agreed: indiebio to investigate hotel schools
20:10:06 <indiebio> thanks
20:10:15 <tumbleweed> ok
20:10:23 <tumbleweed> shall we discuss the bid document
20:10:28 <mwmwmwm> would be quite fun to point conference goers at a large kitchen and
20:10:32 <indiebio> unfortunately cape town doesn't fit the 'africa is cheap' bit.
20:10:36 <mwmwmwm> say "make what you like" ...
20:10:52 <tumbleweed> cheap, yes, but not insanely so
20:11:12 <wendar> well, so far we're talking about EU 12-20 per day per person
20:11:15 <wendar> that's cheap :)
20:11:50 <madduck> what's that for? just food?
20:11:55 <ginggs> $ make pasta make: *** No rule to make target 'pasta'. Stop.
20:12:03 <wendar> that's like coffee and lunch
20:12:04 <highvoltage> indiebio: so is cape town not cheap compared to europe / us still? sorry, haven't been following the costing so I don't have a clue really
20:12:38 <madduck> wendar: 12 would be cheap, 20 not so IMHO
20:12:50 <indiebio> not sure, I think we're a bit cheaper, but not as cheap as nicaragua would be. and more expensive than joburg and much more expensive than other african countries.
20:12:59 <madduck> ftr, HD is about 12–15, depending on how you calculate
20:13:23 <wendar> and, that's on the cheap side for Germany
20:13:35 <madduck> that's very cheap
20:14:17 <madduck> don't get me wrong, it's doable (12–20); I just wouldn't call it "cheap" ;)
20:14:56 <indiebio> I'd agree, Cape Town in general is doable, but not 'cheap'.
20:17:22 <tumbleweed> but we haven't been scraping the bottom of the pricing barrel, either
20:17:26 <tumbleweed> anyway
20:17:33 <tumbleweed> we need to get this bid done by the end of the month
20:17:58 <tumbleweed> madduck was saying we should aim to have all of location checklist covered by the end of the week
20:18:09 <tumbleweed> and aim for 10 days of bid polishing
20:18:11 <tumbleweed> sound about right?
20:18:11 <highvoltage> ah, I didn't realise.
20:18:33 <wendar> sounds reasonable
20:18:52 <wendar> madduck: I don't mean to imply it's a steal, but it's not insanely high
20:18:58 <madduck> rigt
20:19:00 <madduck> right
20:19:24 <indiebio> OK, so I'm going to commit at least half of Friday to do venues, and then another half day next week.
20:19:55 <tumbleweed> and I'm going to spend some decent time on this, too
20:20:03 <tumbleweed> I keep saying that, though :(
20:20:15 <indiebio> yeah, year end is a bugger.
20:20:18 <nattie> tumbleweed: shall i remind you at intervals?
20:20:28 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: I've been out of touch, anything I could do? I'll have a day or two available next week for this
20:20:32 <tumbleweed> keeping conversation alive here is good for keeping motivation
20:20:50 <highvoltage> +1
20:20:53 <wendar> highvoltage: reading over what we've got and looking for gaps would be helpful
20:21:04 <highvoltage> wendar: will do
20:21:08 <tumbleweed> look at the location check list, and see what we aren't covering well
20:21:09 <highvoltage> where's that git repository?
20:21:13 <wendar> you've got a fresh set of eyes, so you'll see stuff we'll miss
20:21:23 <tumbleweed>
20:21:31 <tumbleweed> there are clone URLs there
20:21:32 <highvoltage> thanks
20:21:49 <indiebio> agreed, highvoltage
20:22:04 <indiebio> I look at those things and it all blurs...
20:22:41 <tumbleweed> ooh, indiebio even had to do a git merge
20:23:26 <tumbleweed> anything else that we have to discuss?
20:23:36 <indiebio> not intentional.
20:23:44 <indiebio> nothing from my side...
20:23:49 <tumbleweed> oh, when I was writing up the UCT venues, I thought we should get hold of someone in UCT staff who knows about disabled access
20:23:58 <tumbleweed> there's a department that handles disabled students, somewhere
20:24:12 <indiebio> I just heard montreal or something entered some date into their bid *gets all territorial*
20:24:40 <indiebio> I think the venues people will help with that. Hopefully they'll be more responsive now that we have approval
20:24:44 <highvoltage> just want to add that I liked the muggs and nicaragua. and all the good signage everywhere. and the cheap (AND good) coffee
20:24:52 <indiebio> I think I'll go harass them in person on Friday morning.
20:25:09 <tumbleweed> indiebio: do you want an action for that?
20:25:31 <indiebio> erm, ya, why not
20:25:51 <tumbleweed> tibid: agreed, indiebio to harass someone in UCT about disabled access
20:25:51 <tibid> tumbleweed: Sorry...
20:25:57 <tumbleweed> tibid: botslap
20:25:57 <tibid> :(
20:26:19 <tumbleweed> tibid: agreed indiebio to harass someone in UCT about disabled access
20:26:19 <tibid> Agreed: indiebio to harass someone in UCT about disabled access
20:26:35 <nattie> be kind to your bot!
20:26:51 <tumbleweed> tibid: botsnack
20:26:51 * tibid nom nom
20:26:58 <tumbleweed> anything else?
20:27:04 <indiebio> hahaha, what just happened?
20:27:21 <tumbleweed> he didn't want the comma
20:27:32 <indiebio> and then you slapped him??
20:27:54 <highvoltage> it's ok, it's not nearly as violent as it sounds.
20:28:08 <indiebio> hahaha. wow.
20:29:32 <tumbleweed> I'll take that as nothing else
20:29:38 <tumbleweed> and we can call it
20:30:14 <indiebio> and we kept to exactly an hour. respect.
20:30:19 <tumbleweed> tibid: end meeting

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