DebConf16/Meetings/2014-10-07

Meeting: debconf16, post-venue-visit meeting -- 2014-10-07

Held at 2014-10-07T15:07:36Z in #debconf16-capetown on oftc. Convened by tumbleweed.

Attendees

• confluency
• nattie
• tumbleweed
• ginggs
• madduck
• indiebio
• Hodgestar
• georgl
• wendar

Minutes

Venues

We've visited almost all the venues on our list, took pictures, ranked them according to PriorityList, and narrowed down to our favourites:

1. UCT Breakwater Campus. Self-contained, with affordable quality hotel rooms, right in the heart of the V&A Waterfront, a popular tourist destination, with many restaurants and bars. Debian Day may have to be held elsewhere.
2. UCT Chemical Engineering Building, on Upper Campus. With accommodation in University dorms, and possibly plenaries in Leslie, which has bigger lecture theatres.
3. Protea Hotel in Technopark. Self-contained, large enough, but fairly remote. Half an hour's drive from the city.

But really, almost all the venues we saw were suitable. We have options.

Dates

We suggested ~10-20 August to venues, but want to hear their cheapest dates. UCT Upper Campus can only happen in Vac (1 Jun - 17 Jul).

Next Steps

Complete the LocationCheckList for our preferred venues, and get quotes.

Automated Minutes

15:07:36 Meeting started
15:08:45 topic: agenda (tumbleweed)
15:09:45 topic: Venues (tumbleweed)
15:38:35 agreed: We like the UCT venues (breakwater, chem eng), then technopark (tumbleweed)
15:39:02 topic: Dates (tumbleweed)
15:46:21 topic: What next (tumbleweed)
15:47:19 agreed: dates are venue-dependant, but 10-20 aug is what we're suggesting as a hint (tumbleweed)
15:52:31 Meeting ended

Full log

15:07:36 <tumbleweed> tibid: start meeting about debconf16, post-venue-visit meeting
15:07:36 * tibid gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles
15:08:45 <tumbleweed> tibid: topic agenda
15:08:45 <tibid> Current Topic: agenda
15:08:53 <tumbleweed> what do we want to talk about?
15:08:55 <tumbleweed> venue summary
15:08:56 <tumbleweed> dates
15:08:57 <tumbleweed> ??
15:09:09 <indiebio> that's all... don't have the energy for sponsorships
15:09:16 <nattie> are we narrowing venues during this meeting or has it already been done, or...?
15:09:18 <tumbleweed> one more item: What next
15:09:24 <indiebio> although, we had some chatting about day trip things during our driving
15:09:26 <wendar> questions/comments from people who weren't able to join the site visits
15:09:34 <tumbleweed> ok
15:09:39 <tumbleweed> let's talk about venues then
15:09:39 <nattie> oh, i know the answer to "what next". it's "run around flailing your arms and panicking"
15:09:43 <indiebio> nattie: we narrowed a bit, but we need prices, and I'm busy getting those
15:09:45 <tumbleweed> tibid: topic Venues
15:09:45 <tibid> Current Topic: Venues
UNHANDLED EVENT: notice 15:09:50 <tumbleweed> georgl: hi
15:09:50 <nattie> aha, ok
15:09:52 <tumbleweed> ginggs: even
15:10:00 <nattie> hi folks who've just arrived
15:10:09 <ginggs> hi all
15:10:16 <tumbleweed> we're just about to talk about venues
15:10:25 <tumbleweed> so, we summarised our views into https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Bids/Cape_Town#Venues_being_investigated
15:10:38 <tumbleweed> I think the top votes are for Breakwater campus and Chem Eng building
15:10:43 <tumbleweed> both UCT fascilities
15:10:52 <Hodgestar> What is a good number of venue options to include in our proposal? 2, 3?
15:10:59 <tumbleweed> (you can see photos, from the link above the table)
15:11:19 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: Germany bid with 2 cities https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf15/Bids/Germany
15:11:22 <wendar> Hodgestar: at least 5, but maybe more, since we've split UCT into 4 different items
15:12:02 <madduck> Hodgestar: I suggest to create a short list of 2–3 items first and then develop them, and in a month or so we know whether we can propose just one, or alternatives too
15:12:19 <tumbleweed> it sounds like we can book chem-eng for free, and keep it as a backup
15:12:23 <tumbleweed> so we absolutely should do that
15:12:55 <wendar> madduck: we'll definitely propose alternatives
15:13:04 <georgl> tumbleweed:hi
15:13:05 <Hodgestar> Maybe we need to make "UCT" and "UCT Breakwater" and then have "UCT" have a bunch of options?
15:13:19 <tumbleweed> anything on UCT main campus also probably means accom at half the price of breakwater
15:13:20 <Hodgestar> If we offer 4 options that are the same it makes it look like we're short on options?
15:13:27 <madduck> wendar: just as long as you are aware of the backlash you might get ;)
15:13:36 <tumbleweed> georgl: hi. I wasn't meaning to ping you, but please do follow along :)
15:13:41 <wendar> madduck: well, we want to show we haven't cast all our eggs in one basket
15:13:44 <madduck> there is also a difference between alternatives and backups ;)
15:13:50 <wendar> madduck: we definitely have 2 favorites
15:13:51 <madduck> wendar: right ;)
15:13:56 <Hodgestar> Is internet at UCT really 2?
15:13:57 <georgl> i will catch up, just got in from work
15:14:08 <Hodgestar> I've still never managed to connect anything to the UCT network since I left. :P
15:14:08 <indiebio> yes, important note is that ginggs and I will apply and book for UCT ChemEng as a back-up, regardless.
15:14:11 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: 10Gbps fibre...
15:14:21 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: but yes, the wifi may be tricky
15:14:34 <Hodgestar> tumbleweed: The last 100m is important. :)
15:14:34 <tumbleweed> we'd want a custom SSID, or our own wifi kit, probably
15:14:42 <indiebio> it's the best you're gonna get in South Africa, let's put it that way
15:14:48 <tumbleweed> I don't know how ameanable ICTS is going to be to this
15:14:55 <wendar> madduck: if you really think the current table is too long, we could trim it down to just the UCT options and Techno Park
15:15:07 <wendar> madduck: but... germany listed quite a few options
15:15:11 <indiebio> tumbleweed: they were fine for TEDx, which was only one day, but had livestreaming
15:15:29 <nattie> we could move the ones that aren't really under consideration to the bottom of the table. want me to do that?
15:15:30 <madduck> wendar: sure, at this point it's fine. But you need to pick a short list soon and then go in-depth on those…
15:15:37 <tumbleweed> indiebio: We're not worried about quality. I'm worried about them giving us the freedom to do what we need.
15:15:44 <indiebio> and seeing that this is more aligned to university stuffs, and in vac, I think they'll be convinced
15:15:51 <wendar> madduck: yes, already planned :)
15:16:00 <madduck> wendar: and realistically, 2–3 items on the short list is enough
15:16:02 <indiebio> they should, they did for TEDx, as firewalls and whatnots were too much effort
15:16:06 <madduck> and you won't be able to do more anyway
15:16:39 <indiebio> madduck: I am doing follow ups with in depth questions and pricing, which should exclude some
15:16:59 <tumbleweed> and really, I think we're concentrating on UCT now
15:17:23 <tumbleweed> The baxter UCT option can probably go
15:17:25 <indiebio> nattie: we could remove the no's, their details are still on the good-bad-ugly page
15:17:32 <indiebio> (don't edit that one, I'm busy on it!!)
15:17:38 <nattie> indiebio: point!
15:17:46 <nattie> i'll take the no's out of the front page now, though
15:17:50 <madduck> indiebio: right, but what I mean with "in-depth" isn't really suitable to email. What I am talking about is working through the LocationChecklist page item by item…
15:17:53 <nattie> we can always revert if we change our mind
15:18:26 <indiebio> madduck: sure, but pricing may already exclude some, which will determine the proiority areas, make sense?
15:18:50 <tumbleweed> madduck: right, we aren't going to do that for all of these venues :)
15:18:54 <indiebio> as wendar noted, we do have quite a few venues that are very suitable
15:19:21 <Hodgestar> It looks like the Protea Hotel / Technopark got lots of thumbs up from those visiting?
15:19:25 <indiebio> madduck, can you send me that locationchecklist if it's easy at hand?
15:19:26 <madduck> indiebio: yes and no; it's good to get a basic idea of pricing, but negotiations are best when you have 2–3 strong alternatives that you can play off against each other.
15:19:28 <Hodgestar> Can someone elaborate on the 0s?
15:19:47 <wendar> madduck: we're not actually negotiating until we get the bid
15:19:53 <indiebio> hodgestar: apart from being too posh, and possibly as a result pricey, I thought it very suitable
15:19:55 <Hodgestar> Are the travel 0s just because it's in Stellenbosch?
15:19:55 <indiebio> thanks madduck
15:20:20 <Hodgestar> And how is it possible to get a 0 for access to food in Stellenbosch? :)
15:20:30 <wendar> madduck: at this point, we need to show feasibility of the city, so we don't want to just show one option (make it look risky)
15:20:32 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: yeah, mostly
15:20:33 <indiebio> it is out of the way, would require dedicated buses. and being in stellenbosch means missioning from the airport. But I think wendar and tumbleweed is better placed to answer this
15:20:38 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: technopark isn't in stellenbosch per se
15:19:49 <tumbleweed> indiebio: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/LocationCheckList
15:20:52 <indiebio> it's in between stellies and somerset west
15:20:53 * Hodgestar looks at maps.
15:20:56 <madduck> wendar: good plan
15:21:03 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: we probably could have said 0.5 for those
15:21:10 <tumbleweed> sure, they aren't 0 as in middle of the karoo
15:21:19 <tumbleweed> but they would require us to run busses or something
15:22:28 <indiebio> madduck: we did the site visits for all of these in the past two days, and asked a good many of these questions, so I feel it is well covered for a first stab
15:23:37 <wendar> I guess to summarize, we had a good run the past few days.
15:23:49 <wendar> And, I feel entirely confident we could host an excellent DebConf here.
15:23:57 <indiebio> \o/
15:23:58 <wendar> That's really what I wanted out of it.
15:24:03 <madduck> \o/
15:24:05 <tumbleweed> or 2 or 3 :P
15:24:13 <wendar> We've got a lot of details, and a list of more to gather.
15:24:15 <indiebio> one at a time, tumbleweed
15:24:36 <tumbleweed> so, any questions about any of the venues?
15:24:48 <tumbleweed> (or other 0s)
15:24:58 * tumbleweed can't remember why we gave baxter a 0 on catered food
15:25:16 <indiebio> they have a restaurant...
15:25:39 <nattie> also, the other UCT venues still have a ? on catered food
15:25:46 <indiebio> should I follow up on baxter or is their paranoid security a dealbreaker?
15:26:01 <Hodgestar> Breakwater has lots of 2s, do people like it more than Technopark? How much of an issue do we think pricing will be?
15:26:04 <indiebio> nattie: UCT would require bringing food in, so we don't know that yet
15:26:10 <nattie> aha
15:26:11 <indiebio> Breakwater is the current favourite
15:26:15 <wendar> I'd put baxter below breakwater, chem eng, leslie, and kramer
15:26:21 <Hodgestar> indiebio: Woot.
15:26:24 <indiebio> ok, so I'll follow up
15:26:34 <indiebio> hodgestar, meaning?
15:26:47 <indiebio> is irc case sensitive to names, by the way? :)
15:26:48 <Hodgestar> indiebio: Woot == everything is right with the world. :)
15:26:49 <wendar> baxter is a least worth a price list
15:26:53 <indiebio> :)
15:27:16 <indiebio> ok, it's the dates and willingness to let us loose for 10 days that's going to decide that. Prices are reasonable
15:27:20 <indiebio> and accommodation...
15:27:28 <indiebio> which links with their off-season....
15:27:44 <wendar> yeah, any of those could knock baxter out
15:28:03 <nattie> so, what was the problem with baxter having an attitude?
15:28:11 <nattie> i am still slightly out of the loop
15:28:28 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: Technopark is a bit out of the way (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but does mean more work for us)
15:28:29 <wendar> They were just very protective of their space.
15:28:54 <wendar> And, it was on the nicer theatre side.
15:29:04 <wendar> As in major productions of shakespeare theatre.
15:29:07 <nattie> aha
15:29:13 <wendar> red velvet chairs
15:29:16 <wendar> (IIRC)
15:29:17 <nattie> probably not quite the right vibe
15:29:30 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: it also felt like a conference hotel. But then, now that I think back, so did breakwater
15:29:54 <Hodgestar> tumbleweed: Is that a + or a - ? :)
15:29:55 <wendar> It had a quirky, fun, artistic quality, that made it probably viable.
15:30:10 <nattie> indiebio: irc fixes the cases if you tab-complete, most clients do anyway
15:30:31 <indiebio> nattie: they're anal. Baxter is UCT's whole beureaucracy palaba, PLUS a whole 'nother layer of admin for Baxter
15:30:42 <nattie> oh joy
15:30:44 <wendar> technopark felt more like a conference hotel than the others.
15:31:00 <confluency> Oh, hey, a meeting.
15:31:02 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: - I'd say. I think debconf is a bit too abnormal for a conference hotel
15:31:11 <indiebio> I felt breakwater is very business-like. Must admit my favourite is chemeng, but obviously, I'm biased, as it's my home
15:31:30 * nattie waves at confluency
15:31:32 <indiebio> breakwater's add-ons - outside life, pubs, accommodation is just all very suitable
15:32:13 <wendar> indiebio: yeah, I can see us having a lot of fun up and down the levels of chem eng, it has a good geeky feel to it
15:32:20 <indiebio> nattie, I think you will just LOVE Baxter. I like it very much, but the people dent it a bit
15:32:21 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: debconf doesn't want to be waited on hand and foot. We want to take over your venue, and run our own thing. We also want to drink and play Mao all night
15:32:42 <nattie> tumbleweed: long live the 5th floor
15:32:46 <indiebio> Breakwater will allow it, but we will probably feel like we shouldn't the whole time
15:32:58 <tumbleweed> nattie: indeed
15:33:01 * confluency scrolls up a lot.
15:33:12 <wendar> indiebio: we didn't visit it, but didn't you say chem eng has a 5th floor balcony for social gatherings too?
15:33:13 <nattie> and if there isn't a 5th floor in your building, we'll build one ;)
15:33:16 <indiebio> the other thing with chemeng, there's still academics in there during vac. It is quieter as peeps go to conferences, but we might have to respect *some* areas
15:33:25 <indiebio> oooh yes.
15:33:35 <indiebio> and what happens at beerclub stays at beerclub :D
15:33:39 <nattie> !
15:33:42 <indiebio> but it won't take 300 people at one
15:33:59 <wendar> in favor of Breakwater is that we'd pretty much own the space for the weeks
15:34:04 <indiebio> The new building has a lot of play-space too
15:34:06 <nattie> that's ok, the actual socialising contingent is always smaller than the total of attendees
15:34:31 <indiebio> wendar, you can take a quick look tonight
15:34:51 <wendar> indiebio: ah, right
15:34:54 <wendar> we should photograph
15:37:06 <tumbleweed> ready to move the discussion on?
15:37:26 <wendar> nod
15:37:30 <indiebio> yeah, I think the bottom line is we need follow up prices to make a better shortlist, but the vibe currently is exceedingly positive
15:37:45 <indiebio> you can probably minute that, tumbleweed :)
15:38:08 <Hodgestar> Current concensus appears to be: Breakwater, followed by other UCT (primaril ChemEng), followed by Technopark?
15:38:19 <Hodgestar> Concensus might change given pricing.
15:38:28 <nattie> that sounds like a pretty good narrowing so far
15:38:35 <tumbleweed> tibid: agreed We like the UCT venues (breakwater, chem eng), then technopark
15:38:35 <tibid> Agreed: We like the UCT venues (breakwater, chem eng), then technopark
15:39:02 <tumbleweed> tibid: topic Dates
15:39:02 <tibid> Current Topic: Dates
15:39:13 <tumbleweed> indiebio: you were proposing some dates to conferences in quotation requests
15:39:18 <tumbleweed> do we want to discuss that any further
15:39:31 <indiebio> I suggested 12-22 august
15:39:35 <indiebio> for no real reason
15:39:54 <wendar> dates kind of depend on venue
15:39:58 <indiebio> I do think the July-August slot is the most favourable in terms of off-season pricing and the multiple things we have discussed over email so far
15:40:00 <tumbleweed> yeah
15:40:05 <wendar> for main UCT, we have to go with vac
15:40:21 <tumbleweed> so as long as the request says ~ "or give us your best dates" it's all good
15:40:31 <indiebio> I am definitely not saying those are THE dates, but the venues really struggle with no dates at all
15:40:38 * nattie is very much in favour of august
15:40:40 <tumbleweed> yeah, it's a good start
15:40:42 <indiebio> yeah, but we're so far ahead in time, they're still open, so they don't know
15:40:56 <indiebio> when do we need definite dates? late 2015?
15:41:32 <indiebio> my current phrase is "pending mutual suitability closer to the time;"
15:41:43 <wendar> indiebio: we'd want DebCamp before a weekend, then Debian Day on a weekend, then DebConf on a week after
15:42:01 <nattie> wendar, indiebio: 10-20 August perhaps?
15:42:14 <wendar> so, 15-26th or 22 - the Sept Friday
15:42:21 <wendar> Sept 2nd
15:42:30 <nattie> it would be nice to include the 16th
15:42:34 <nattie> and the 17th
15:42:45 <tumbleweed> and UCT vac is 1 Jun 2016 to 17 Jul 2016
15:43:04 <tumbleweed> so for chem eng, we'd probably be looking at the beginning of july?
15:43:13 <indiebio> 'k
15:43:21 <wendar> yeah, first couple weeks of july for dorm residence
15:43:23 <indiebio> also, set-up and breakdown times, how long do we need extra?
15:43:29 <tumbleweed> maybe that'd be too late, even
15:43:41 <indiebio> I need to check with UCT for graduation dates as well, would want to steer clear of those, ideally
15:44:01 <tumbleweed> ok, so we just tell them mid-year-vac 2016
15:44:27 <indiebio> yes, at this stage I need to tailor these dates for each venue, actually
15:44:49 <indiebio> oh, by the way, once I get all the prices and stuff onto git, can I ask someone else to tabulate them and do a cost analysis jobbie?
15:45:24 <wendar> I can do that
15:45:29 <wendar> (I did it for Portland)
15:45:41 <tumbleweed> ok, and we can help you get those PDFs into git, this evening
15:46:03 <tumbleweed> moving on?
15:46:11 <indiebio> tumbleweed: thanks
15:46:21 <tumbleweed> tibid: topic What next?
15:46:21 <tibid> Current Topic: What next
15:46:41 <tumbleweed> Draw up full LocationChecklists for our 3 venues?
15:46:44 <indiebio> yeah, so the minutes for dates is that it is venue dependent, and those dates tumbleweed and wendar discussed
15:47:10 <indiebio> I would say next is get basis pricing (in progress)
15:47:19 <tumbleweed> tibid: agreed dates are venue-dependant, but 10-20 aug is what we're suggesting as a hint
15:47:19 <tibid> Agreed: dates are venue-dependant, but 10-20 aug is what we're suggesting as a hint
15:47:33 <indiebio> Then use that to set up priority list based on that and draw up full LocationChecklists for the top 3 venues
15:48:15 <indiebio> just getting back to dates quick, set-up and breakdown times, how long do we need extra?
15:48:29 <indiebio> so if we book the 10th, are we running on the 10th, or setting up on the 10th?
15:48:46 <nattie> not ACTUALLY that long for setup and breakdown, but a day either end is nice
15:48:54 <tumbleweed> indiebio: setup usually happens during debcamp
15:49:02 <tumbleweed> teardown happens on the last night of the conference
15:49:15 <tumbleweed> we're quite good at that
15:49:16 <indiebio> ok
15:49:24 <tumbleweed> although we may need one or two rooms for another few days
15:49:29 <indiebio> and start and end times each day?
15:49:38 <tumbleweed> and attendees should have some possibility of extra time in accom, to get their flights
15:49:41 <nattie> the vidteam has got *extremely* good at tidying up after itself
15:49:45 <indiebio> assuming we don't stay in the actual plenary/smaller venues for the hacking etc
15:49:47 <wendar> depends on whether we do american or european style
15:49:48 * nattie has much love for the videoteam anyway
15:50:02 <wendar> European style runs sessions until 8 or 9pm
15:50:22 <wendar> American would wrap up sessions at 6pm.
15:50:24 <nattie> i think that's a *little* excessive
15:50:28 <nattie> oops, where'd she go?
15:51:55 <tumbleweed> we can catch her up (or ginggs can)
15:52:05 <nattie> point
15:52:13 <tumbleweed> are done?
15:52:31 <tumbleweed> tibid: end meeting